Oct 7, 2005

Brahmins and Jews

Before going into the topic, I want to mention that I am the firm believer of ‘Jaadhigal Illaipadi paappa’. I would be among the happiest in the world if everyone gets up one fine day and the disease called ‘caste’ had gone from their minds and from all records. Most of my closest friends have been non-brahmins; my best friend from KG to class 7 was a Muslim; our family doctor for almost 25 years belonged to a ‘SC’ and I don’t have a caste surname. I hate to tell all these things, but I don’t want to be painted as a casteist. I am a big fan of K. Raghavan, who writes for Kumudam reporter the ‘Nilamellam Ratham’, where he discusses all things about the middle east conflict, starting pre-christian ages.

I found several similarities between Brahmins and Jews. IMHO, both the communities are proud of what they are; Plenty of great, world-famous intellectuals can be found among them; they are ambitious; they are also mostly highly religious and god-fearing; they are still criticized for some of the things that their ancestors had done ages ago. I was watching Anniyan for the fourth time last weekend and it made me think on ‘Brahmins’. I remembered an article I read in cinesouth on how much pro-Brahmin Anniyan is and some stupid arguments on capitalism and Brahminism.

It is a fashion for some self-proclaimed ‘Dravidian’ leaders to use the word ‘paarppaneeyam’ and take a swipe at Brahmins, and sometimes, on Hindus in general. If he is an atheist, he should keep it to himself.. why issue public statements? I remember the post ‘Aham Brahmaasmi’ by Kasthuri. Very nice one, which says who is a Brahmin and who isn’t. Those who attack Brahminism, take a break.. For quite long time, there is no caste issue due to them. All the flares that have taken place in the past few decades have been due to some other aggressive castes who are against Dalits.


Whenever I think about the caste issue in Tamilnadu, I feel angry and it is depressing too. When Suhasini made ‘Indira’ 10 years ago, everyone said “nay, that kind of casteism doesn’t any longer exist in Tamilnadu”, and “what does a Brahmin Suhasini know about the peaceful and reformed villages comprising Dalits and other communities?”. Within a few months, there were caste clashes in southern TN, which was really shameful. Brahmins are a subdued community, minding their own business and however orthodox they are, it is like “we wont mind your business, you wont mind ours”. Fair.

When Mel Gibson made “The Passion of Christ”, the Jews feared that it could lead to some hate-attacks on them.. For what they did 2000 years ago, they still have to pay the price!! 50 years ago, there was Hitler, 100 years ago, Russia, and before that, the entire Europe. People tend to get scared of them because they work hard, thrive for excellence and succeed.. Those who feel insecure about it make noises all the time.

In TN, except Brahmins, everyone else is in ‘backward class’ or lower, am I right? How can that be? How can business class be backward? How can the past rulers be backward? It is funny that people think themselves of a top section of the society but don’t want to come out of ‘backward’ stamp. It is high time the 69% quota gets abolished. Those who are economically well-off should all be erased of their caste details in all the records once for all, and, as the plate keeps moving down, there will be a good percent of people with ‘no caste’. Unless the government does something like that, we will always have caste and reservation. While I am glad that most in TN don’t carry a caste-based surname, it is high time they take it off their mind too.

64 comments:

Nitin said...

offtopic sorry again about cricket. another loss for world XI, i think this time it was more of a poor display by the bowlers, and other two disappointments are sehwag, and lara. i really hoped lara would play a great game in this odi, but he didn't do that well. Australia is class man, great play by Gilchrist.

Nag said...

I wish they remove this complete reservation system from india ASAP
only 50-50 reservation for male and female should be there.
For economically poor they can have few perks in side that 50-50 reservations.
And they should make free education compulsary and in return everybody should work in countrys social service or miltary service organizations for one year after graduation
But all these are possible in present INDIA!!!

Raju said...

Nitin, its OK.. you can discuss anything in my blog.. no need to apologize.. Sehwag continues to disappoint. Wright and Gavaskar still have high hopes on him. IMHO, Afridi at the top, especially against an attack without McGrath would have been the ideal way to start. I would certainly dump Sehwag for the next game and bring Afridi in. About Lara and Kallis, cant say.. they are proven performers but having an off-time now. Hope they click for the tests atleast.. I am more interested in that than in the ODI's. True, Aus are playing like wounded tigers proving to a point to the world. Except the Lanksns Sangakkara and Murali, everyone looks pedestrian against them. The world XI players should take pride that they represent, what, over 95% of the World's population to compete with the Australians.. That doesnt seem to be.

Nag, I too wish so.. In US too, there is a sizeable African-American population but there is no reservation. They are taken care by community programs and there are schemes to raise their living standard up but when it comes to education and jobs, it is a level-playing field. Your suggestion on male-female reservation is interesting. Women will have a lot to complain about it, in education, while the men will, for the jobs.

Even in countries like Turkey, which, if I am right, havent participated in any war for quite a while, there is this compulsory military service requirement. I too wish it is there in our country... it would help inculcate some good habits of discipline, diet and health awareness.

tt_giant said...

Raju: Check out Ashoka Mitran's interview in Outlook (published sometime back) where he compares brahmins with jews.

In the present political scenario, no one would even dare to talk about scrapping the reservation system. Why?. Majority of the people are <= BC class, and they correspond to the vote bank. Nammaloda vote yaarukku venum. Yenna, naama dhaan out-of-city la 800 sq-ft veedu vaangi, manja paint adichi, kaapi kudichundu, hindu paper padikaravangalaachey! (ala, mudhalvan dialog).

But the thing is, INSPITE OF THE RESERVATION, hardships, if one is successful, then credit has to/can be given/taken duly.

mitr_bayarea said...

Gp: excellent and well voiced out. This whole brahminism comes with an attitude of superiority and arrogance that they are a cut above the rest. These days everyone studies well, in fact, brahmins aren't class toppers anymore, everybody excels in their job etc. But, why can't everything be open system-i used to hate the quota system, FC changed to OC, then, BC, MBC, SC/ST etc. The government, be is JJ or MK will always be leniant towards the BC community as they need these folks vote more than the votes of the few educated masses. If a SC/ST student gets 45 and passes and a FC student gets more, the SC/ST will still get a seat into Anna Univ or a government institution.

Tamil Nadu le "kazhagam" aatchi irukaravaraikum ithellam marathu. These are precisely reasons why thinking about returning back to India scared the hell out of me.

Raju said...

Deepak, appadiya? Besh Besh.. namakkum sila great minds madhiri sindhikka mudiyuthu.. :-) I used to read outlook only while train journeys in India. After coming here, only rediff.

You are right.. No one would even think of scrapping it, especially with the entry of caste-based parties into mainstream politics. That is the worst thing to have happened in the last 10-12 years.. "Jaadhi ozhiga.."nnu kathuravanga ellam adhai pathi decide panna brainstorming sessions nadathalame.. What made me think a lot on this issue is the huge number of Brahmins I witnessed in the US so far.. Hopefully they dont bring quota system for US visas.. :-)

(BTW, I saw in one of ur comments that you have no sisters.. Dont tell me that you have only one brother..) :-)


Mitr, thanks. I agree with you about everyone excelling now. That should be the way.. Equal opportunities for all. Instead of increasing the reservation from 25 to 50 to 69 (and may be even more, depending on who would come to power in the coming years), the governmemnt should make sure that every village in TN has atleast a primary school and no child should be left behind. No child should have to travel more than 4 km to reach the nearest school. When Kamaraj, during the lull period of 60's, could build thousands of schools, cant the present government atleast try to double it? I dont mind things like "free education, books, bicycle, dress, etc. for BC and lower class".. You give 12 years to convert the child into something.. why so much quota after that, in every stage of education, job and even promotion?

Exactly my thoughts on the different marks they have to score for professional courses and the fear of making our next generation to go through all these anxieties and sick politics.

tt_giant said...

Raju: Yea, I do!!. I have one elder brother, no sisters.

Man, are you sure you don't have another blogger id called tt_giant and posting stuff at ttgiant.blogspot.com?

tt_giant said...

aaaha.. en blog name a supera maathiteengaley!!..

Arjuna_Speaks said...

raju - I wrote a post on this long time ago explaining the caste system - do check it out :)

http://naan-yaar.blogspot.com/2005/08/caste-system-inner-significance.html

Raju said...

Deepak, ninaichenn... edhirparthenn.. Now, one question.. unga brother endha varushan pirandharappa? (Ippovachum '78-nu sollidadheenga.. )

I dont know the blogger ID and password of tt_giant. ;-)
And, atleast, you and me have age difference. :-)

Adhu enna, unga blog name-a maathittena? Puriyalaye.. (namma rendu perum table tennis madhiri mathi mathi kelvi kettu badhil solrome, adhuva?)


Arjuna, thanks for your link. Well written and nice whip given to Karunanidhi. But, when did the 'mental state' division become an actual division in the society based on birth? IMHO, that is not right. But, say, after independence, when socio-economical equalness was sought, our government came up with land reformation, reservation, etc. It is alright for some duration of time.. But, it cant go on forever, with all castes trying to say they are 'backward'. Instead of increasing the number of educational institutions and the jobs, which would create opportunities for talented as well as suppressed people, if they opt only in reservation, it is damn bad.

Me too said...

'Caste' is used as a weapon by the politicians and they use it to divert people's attention when they have to solve some real problems.

If everyone chooses their future based on their interest, life would be better for everyone. Just b'cos of quota system a person with no interest in medicine or technology gets into that line making everyoneelse's life miserable.

tt_giant said...

Raju: I dont want to dilute this post. My email id is kvndeepak who lives in yahoo or gmail dot com.

ya-goo is preferred.

Raju said...

Aps, right. Only when the politicians come out of this kinda narrow-minded strategies, namma naadu uruppadum. I agree with you on going by one's interests.. It most often becomes the parents' interest.. Namma interest ennannu yaaru kekkura?

Deepak, done.. indru mudhal off-the topic discussions-ku mail use pannalam..

ada-paavi!!!! said...

nice post, by the way i think reservation has done good for the brahmins as a community, the bar is higher for us and weve had to work harder, that means in th eend we finish on above the competition. this way reservation has helped us.

the success of a particular community hs invoked fear in the minds of the others, and therefore they wish to curtail the success, but unkowingly they r helping the community!!

raju, but inbetween all this i also feel that the brahmin imperialism which existed rnd a 200 yrs ago was wrong, and this led to the anti brahnim feeling

Vanathi said...

Useful post. Good thought.

Raju said...

Vatsan, thats a very interesting angle you have come up with. The higher bar is something I was about to mention, but didnt, for some reasons. Let me tell now: Suppose one is sick and has the choice of visiting two doctors with the same qualifications and age, one - a Brahmin and the other, a non-Brahmin. From purely 'QUALITY' point of view, I would choose to go the Brahmin doctor, because, i know that he would have probably worked much harder to come to this stage than the other one. I know one of my friends, whose parents were both doctors, didnt study that hard during 11 and 12. Reason, he said, he was some lower caste, so he was sure of getting the MBBS seat without much sweat. Since the quota system exists even for higher medical studies, if he was to study MS or MD, he would have had the same mentality during MBBS too.. But the Brahmin doctor would have slogged much harder. I know, as Mitr pointed out, not always Brahmins come first. Example is my case.. I was school II in Class 10 and the first rank holder was a non-brahmin girl. So sick now to tell these, but during 11 and 12, lots of discussions on who in our class are FC, BC, MBC, etc. have taken place. So much for "jaadhigal illaiyadi paappa".

Brahmin imperialism is certainly wrong.. but, hatred from the past events is something history is full of. Atleast in this civilized time we need to forget the old stories and move ahead.

Vanathi, thanks.. But, you seem to be moving about a lots of posts and dropping these one or two line comments.. mmmm.. Wonder whether you really read them.

Nitin said...

so GP, see any new tamil movies recently? mazhai is allright.

Raju said...

Nitin, my next post will be on the new movies. Will see Mazhai today or tomorrow..

Oracle Guy said...

>>>Raju says :- Brahmin doctor....would have probably worked much harder to come to this stage than the other one...<<<

And that makes the Brahmin guy much better, doesn't it ? It shouldn't matter that the both Brahmin and non-brahmin went through same education system (during their MBBS/MD etc), wrote the same exam, should it ? Really very rational. ;)

Raju said...

Oracle guy, welcome here. Let me ask you one question: How many marks does a Brahmin have to score in MBBS to get into MS/MD? How many for a BC and lower? If one's target is lower and the other's is higher, who would try harder to reach it? As Vatsan said, Brahmins know from very long that they have to be always ahead of others in order to get into a level-playing field. That is NOT to say that a non-brahmin would have sleep-walked through his courses. You copied and pasted only a small portion of what I replied to Vatsan. If you read the entire comment, you might appreciate the point I was trying to make.

Going through the same education system doesnt make all same and equal, does it? All of us go through 10+2; only few get into MBBS and BE/BTech.. Not all those who go through MBBS get into MD/MS. I certainly DONT SAY that a Brahmin is much better than a non-Brahmin.. All I tried to say was that, there is a big difference between what one needs to achieve in order to move to the next level, so there is no scope for complacency for a Brahmin.

I love to correlate things in life with cricket. Consider this: An Australian gets selected to play for his nation; an Indian also gets selected. They both play international cricket; they both represent their nation. On an average, who is better skilled? An Australian, because, he had to face much tougher competition to get selected than an Indian. Still, India produces a Sachin, a Dravid or a Laxman, who are better than an average Aussie, but, as a team, Aus wins much more than India.

lakshmi said...

Good post.
That's true about brahmins minding their own business and do not mind other's too.They don't disturb others right.

About government, removing this caste system,it's very difficult to imagine also,to do and follow this in all villages and cities of even tamil nadu alone.

All the more we can do is to hope for that day and do our best to achieve.

Raju said...

Lakshmi, thanks.

Well, if the government wants to, they can certainly take measures to eradicate caste. Remember the name change to all the districts, bus corporations, etc? I think the socio-economic factors need to be taken into account carefully, to ensure that we get a level-playing field soon.

susubala said...

Hey Cinema Critic, Your comments for Movie Azhagi is great. I really love Nandita Das for her nature beauty and the acting. Extraordinary movie.

Raju said...

Sumi, welcome!! Thanks.. Nice to receive comments for 'old' posts. :-) Indeed, she was the real 'azhagi'.

CHEMINFANT said...

awesome thoughts dude..
whatever you have said is true to the point...
do more..

Raju said...

Aham, thanks.. :-)

Prabu Karthik said...

@raju

very sensible post. appreciate u for that. politicans play a huge role in all these atrocities...

i am dead against reservation.

i agree with one aspect of vatsan's comment. pressures making brahmins work harder.true. and i loved yr australian cricket example. unmai daan.

but i did not like yrdoctor example.

the class topper doctor need not necessarily be good in diagnosis.
as a rational patient u shud be concerned abt getting a cure soon. nothing else matters.

intelligence na nalla padikaradhu kandipa intelligence daan. but adhu mattum illai. how abt running a business? being good in sports?
starting a social reform movement?
ellamey intelligence daan.

there r other very well off communities in TN. its a tragedy that they too come under BC and reservation as u rightly pointed out. avangalukku ellam thevaye illai.

but the trouble starts with comments like this >>the success of a particular community has invoked fear in the minds of the others...

brahmins ku ancestral properties nu perisa ellam kedayadhu. i've never heard of any brahmin zamindars..

they r not as well off as other BC counterparts in TN. succeed they better do. study they better. they dont have an option.

idhu fear illai. not many exactly like their double standards and elitism...atleast i dont relish all this...

i know a brahmin lady.
edhavadhu kariyam aganumna she will ask help from anybody. appo ellam caste no bar.

but avanga veedu vadagaiku vidanumna iyers ku mattum daan viduvaanga.

mitha community karan pure veg na kooda rejected.

i totally agree there r caste discriminations practised by all communities in villages.

but city layum azhaga idhai kadai pidikaradhu brahmin community mattum daan. Not all. but quite a substantial number to make me write.

adhuvum eppovum kedayadhu. eppo laam avangalukku vasadhipadumo eppo laam avanga safe appo..

one day a blogger friend of mine casually remarked that brahmin restaurants and iyengar bakeries r always pure while he cant say the same abt others.

Oh yeah, idu madhiri ethanai per kelambirkangannu therila. anyway then i request such ppl not to go to saravana bhavan, vasantha bhavan, annapoorna in cbe etc.

mudincha cinema kooda balachander padam mattum paarunga,
bharathiraja padam cheran padam laam parkadheenga...

cheran laam mattam.
dont see his movies...

Prabu Karthik said...

for some reason i felt bad abt my comments...

it was at best reactionary.
Pls Delete pannidunga...

Raju said...

Prabu, your points are well-received. I am sorry about that 'doctors' comparison.. I didnt mean it that way.. it is just that to get something, different people need to work differently hard. Though intelligence is not linked with the marks, in India, it is linked, right? Thats why high marks are required for admission into professional courses..

Vatsan's post and others' comments made me re-think the whole issue. It has been badly handled by politicians.. Supposing India is improving at the rate of, say, 6-7% (i.e., NET 6-7% people are out of poverty line, or get more educated, or get more wealthier, etc.) In that case, we should see a decline in the reservation quota, right? Those who have already benefitted should be out, and, say 2-3% should be reduced from the 69% quota. This would ensure that in another 20 years or so, we dont have to use any quota at all..

I noted the examples of the brahmins in cities being choosy.. i think it is the problem of the previous generation's hangover.. Hope it is eradicated. Not to defend... but apart from vegetarianism, not consuming alcohol and no-smoking are some things stressed and expected from Brahmins.. that could be another reason why the house owner lady behaved so.. And I second you on the cleanliness in hotels..

I dont think there is anything wrong in ur comment to get deleted.. Since i consider blog as a place for discussions in all angles, I think it is better to leave it undeleted.

shashi said...

yes the reservation should be completely eliminated from india otherwise it decreases the productivity of people and india will become only country in the world where intelligents are denied jobs coz of what they are.even Sir M.Visveswariah resigned from his dewan post coz reservation was implemented in state of mysore and he opposed it as it would hinder talented people

Raju said...

Shashi, I agree with you completely. Thanks to the reservation and the general laid-back mindset of our people, the country had a totally dull outlook before liberalization took place.. Now, all the MNCs are able to excel in India bcos they have total freedom in choosing the best candidates for the job.. A reservation at the private sector, as was suggested in the manifesto of last election, would drive away all the companies and bring us back to square one..

There is absolutely no effort taken by any government to bring economic factors in here..

Augustine Prabhu G said...

Raju, I appreciate the objective of this sensitive topic. And, another specialty I noticed in this blog is, everybody has responded by being into the problem (though the suggestions are mostly hypothetical). Unless you have the deftness (like Bhagyaraj's Idhu namma aallu or Bharathiraja's Vedham Pudhidhu), it is not an easy deal to discuss such a hypersensitive topic without hurting the readers' blood.

My comments on some of the points mentioned by different bloggers.

To Raju:
1. Happy to acknowledge your belief - 'Jaadhihall illaiyadi paappa'. But, if you read through the responses to your article, you can easily make out who belongs to FC and who belongs to rest (on the interest of this topic). And, that is why I intentionally said - readers' blood. Casteism CANNOT be taken out of India at least for the next 100 years (that I can be sure), unless something like Sci-Fi happens. I may sound pessimistic, but that is the bitter reality to be accepted.
2. That Cinesouth article is a classic example of how 'nothing' can be made 'politics'. This is how we have fabricated Ramadoss and Thiruma. Ultimately, by going into each and every frame of that film, that author has lost the big picture what Shankar wanted to convey.
3. Equal opportunities for all - India is not matured enough to handle this. We are just talking about the greater % of middle and upper middle class that have made it to the US or the white and blue collared of India. We have more than 60% (the real India) in India to be addressed, which need to be included when we suggest these options / solutions. It is sometimes becoming too difficult (from the US) to really feel the pain of that 60% society (not considering castes). Everytime I read Junior Vikatan's 'Ambalam', 'Crime' sections, I see the real, poor India. CNN's breaking news are nothing when compared to those. Who (which kazhagam or which caste) will own those 17 lives that got killed in an unmanned rail crossing ? Who will own the tragedy that happened to Payyalal's family (of lower caste) in Maharashtra ? For us, tax rebates for films named in Tamil, attending film functions for 4, 5 hours, making protests to protect Tamil (who cares if you call it 'coffee' or 'kottai vadineer' if you cannot give better life ?) are more important. Culture, language, self esteem are important, but what it means to the % that does not know its future ?
To Prabu Karthik:
1. I understand what you are conveying. This relates to 'brahminism' referred by Raju too I think. I have spent 4 years in a brahmin college and was in a brahmin housing association for around 2, 3 years. I think the issue is not about principles of not renting a house to a non-vegetarian or a smoker, but the display of cleverness (and that becomes worser when you are clever enough to figure that cleverness out). My take on that would be (or what I learnt to do), every community has its trademark - the list would be too long. Keralites, Gujaratis, people of Andhra (how people of Andhra are called ? I get only the default name, not the official one :)) etc. I have read somewhere, Gujjus and Jews more or less behave the same way vis-à-vis money. So, it is for everybody to respect those trademarks, at the same time, without losing self esteem.

So the bottomline is, in my opinion, casteism cannot or will not go away. Knowingly or unknowingly, we allowed that system to enter into our society 1000s of years ago. There is also an arguable version, that it came into India only after Aryan invasion (that invasion itself is theoretical; so no point in discussing that). And, no government is going to banish that. It is going to be there like the Kashmir issue (and the Ayodhya issue that we had till we had BJP in centre). They dust off the shoes and polish it whenever they need. As citizens, we can only be more sensible and socially aware (in addition to praying for something miraculous to happen). I think if we all become the 'Ambi of Anniyan' (I am, to some extent), there will be a significant improvement.
P.S.: I have been trying to get a house in Chennai (not yet got) and told my wife to pay the entire registration fee for the actual price. But, it seems the sellers wouldn't agree to that. Do you know how Shankar bought his TNagar office ? I don't know.

You may want to read this blog too (which relates to some extent to this bottomline) http://www.mouthshut.com/Comment/readcomment.php?rid=23611&r=1&com=0

Augustine Prabhu G said...

In that mouthshut.com blog, agasagas comments are mine. Ignore the temperament of that article, but the subject.

Raju said...

Augustine, welcome here..

Wow.. one of the longest comments I ever received.. Thanks for ur interest in the topic.

I havent read ur mouthshut.com article, so lemme reply to ur comment here..

IMHO, casteism can be abolished 'from records' only if we get a good dictator and orders to do so. But, erasing it from people's mind would take even more than 200 years. From what I have heard from Malaysia-born tamilians, though there is no 'official caste' system, each one's caste still sticks to them and it does matter to them too. When this happens to people who migrated atleast 3 generations (70-100 years) ago, I donno what will happen to we sons of the soil..

Completely agree about the petty politics that goes on in our state. True that over 60% of population, living in rural areas need to be treated with much better care than they are now..

Amarnath.S said...

RAJU.

Just happened to see your blog...

Umm very interesting find but so unfortunate that it is highly flawed.

The comparison of brahmins and the jews is totally outright STUPID.

Firstly raju you have to know something that brahmins are Aryans who are theorized that they came from central asia or maybe the steppes of russia (pimeaval place of the brahmin rigvedic tribe).

Although this school of thought was long opposed, now genetic evidence clearly proved the extent of popularity this theory has.

The genes of the brahmins matches with that of the central asian and european people attesting the caucasian orgins of the brahmins.


And one more thing, I saw you making some comparisons about the opulence and god-fearing nature of the jews and eqauting them with the brahmins.. haha... my dear raju, god-fearing nature is innate among everybody. Who is not god-fearing? Arent u god-fearing? Arent the christians or the muslims god-fearing? And the second comparison is even more intriguing. You had made a comment that both jews and brahmins are intellectuals. Nice Joke.

You can come across very few jews in scientific circle compared to the aryans. Mostly dominated by the europeans and the americans, jews have contributed only in few faculties. ALbert Eisntein, Feynman and then a countable few.

But start naming the brahmin ancestors, namely the europenas, it is countless who made their contribution to the scientific society.

So it is futile to copmare brahmins with the Jews.

I request you to either change the topic or open your window and look at the outside world.

mokshagundam said...

For a Wall Street Journal article on the subject:
Go to the link below.
SEARCH for "India's Brahmins".
Then CLICK on link to article.
http://online.wsj.com/public/search/search_center.html
Wall Street Journal, 12/29/2007.

Anonymous said...

I've a lot of admiration for brahmins in that they have made huge intellectual contributions. What I dont agree with them is the self proclaimed superiority over other caste people. "Casteism" hit me hard when my boyfriend's parents told me "I want to be a brahmin..hence I am trying to marry their son".. also arguments about how our culture is different and will be too tough for me to pick up. I cant tell you how hurt I was when they said "dont think things will work well if you marry our son for that matter any brahmin guy given that you are a non-brahmin". Thats the kind of discrimination when one faces makes them bounce back with retaliations with anti-brahmin sentiment. I dont justify reservation system.. but I cant explain what pain any self respecting individual undergoes when faced with insults like these.

hari said...

UR THOUGHT ABOUT BRAHMIN IS OK BUT THERE IS SAYING TAT ABOUT 90 PERCENT OF WORDS OF GERMAN IS SANSKRIT .. IF IT IS LIKE TAT THEN BRAHMINS ARE FROM GERMAN RACE OR FROM JEWS RACE THEN CONVEY UR THOUGHT ABOUT DIFFERENCE IN BRAHMIN AND JEW

Raju said...

Amarnath, welcome here... and sorry for replying you very late..

I am surprised about the genetic evidence linking Brahmins with caucasians. From the evidence of hair color, skin color and general physical appearance, I would much rather have thought Brahmins to have belonged to India.

I didnt say that only brahmins and jews are god-fearing.. but the god-fearing tendency makes them do less of law-breaking and criminal acts. They believe more strongly in education than those of some other religions.

Agree with you that Europeans have made countless contributions to scientific community, but the success rate of Jews is much higher than that of Europeans.

I rest my case.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mokshagundam, welcome here..

Thanks for the link. I feel that such studies should be carried out often and be used for implementing the quotas for backward and other classes. I strongly feel that we cant continue to have 69% reservation for decades and decades.

Raju said...

Anon, I was very sorry to hear about that unfortunate incident. But I have seen that such strong casteist sentiments exist in other castes too. My thinking is that, whereas such a behavior can be expected from aggressivecastes such as Thevars and Nadars, when one experiences in apparently-soft Brahmins, it is more shocking. By no means do I support such remarks from anyone; the parents must think that when their son or daughter marries a person who is from another caste, and if they dont want to cut-off the relationship, they have to live/interact with that person throughout the rest of their lives. Such a practical thinking would prevent unwanted remarks and help towards peaceful relationship.

Having said that, I must tell you (and others who read this) that we youngsters must understand that we are in a transition-phase and thus are prone to witness discrimination as in your case. Their reaction is a result of their frustration in the realization that they cant get their son/daughter get married the way they imagined from childhood. Please bear with them and try to forget it ASAP.. time and your good behavior would mend all the differences slowly and help towards better relationship.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hari, welcome here..

Thanks for the information. I didnt know that Sanskrit is closely related to other European languages like Latin, German and Roman. From what I have searched online so far, it doesnt appear that a large chunk of German words is Sanskrit.. it is just that the structure of word formation in both languages is similar. So, I dont think there is a correlation between Brahmin and German/Jew races.

Gene said...

The caste politics has been used by our politicians to divide and rule the people. This has hindered progress of India. Educated people should come forward to give up the use of reservation as a tool to get education/jobs. As long as educated people behave in a self centered selfish manner our politicians will thrive on caste politics. I sincerely pray Almighty to send such politicians to the worst hell!

Tony said...

Raju, If you say Brahmins were minding their own business, How come they are high called as Higher class?
Then do you agree that only one lower caste people lived all over tamil nadu and there was nothing like Lower and Upper class untill the Aryans(Brahmins) came into India
And this was a really initiated by Brahmins(Upper and Lower Class)

Give it a Thought

Halak Dave said...

hey I am a Brahmin.. and a very proud one! well I think God has devided us in castes and it should remain like that... I am totally against the war and fights and biases in the name of castes!

I am not being racist but I always feel superior than others and I consider it to be a blessing! and the haters, get a life and mind your own business... There is some reason behind why you are not a Brahmin! Caste system would never go ... it is part of our heritage ... ancient India and it will remain forever!

Pradeep said...

Dear Brother, I have always wondered if Brahmins were descendents of the JEWS. I read your post with awe. I truly beleive there is a close genetic proximity between the two groups. I wish some geneticits could crack the code to let the world know more about JEWS, Brahmins and human migration. Keep posting. All the best.

Anonymous said...

Well, even a casual reader of the Torah of the jews will find that there are lot of similarities between the jewish practices and the brahminic practices. The jews had a priestly class called the levites. Their temple had a outer courtyard, a holy place and a most holy place. The most holy place is reserved for the High Priest and he can enter only once a year. This is still practiced in Brahminic tradition. "Clean" and "Unclean" was distinct among Jews. Torah clearly spells out what is clean and what is unclean. A women during her monthly periods is declared unclean in both Jewish and Brahminic cultures. Ceremonial baths before entering the Jewish temple and ceremonial baths after visiting the dead are both common among the Jews and the Brahmins. The "cleansing" by Jal using hyssop (leaf) is common between Jews and Brahmins. Further more, Jews though there population share is only 0.08% there share in scietific community is 12%. Einstein, Karl Marx, Charlie Chaplien, Sigmuend Freud, Wright brothers are all Jews. Brahmins contribution is also similar CV Raman, Chandrasekar and so on. The list goes on.

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Anonymous said...

Hello,nice post thanks for sharing?. I just joined and I am going to catch up by reading for a while. I hope I can join in soon.

Anonymous said...

Hi, Just came across your blog via google and wanted to give my 0.02. so imo - caste is not about "profession" etc as most people like to think but rather it is a label on "attitude" - the superiority complex that brahmans (note: not "brahmins" (not the 'i')) have is because of so-emotional 'perfection' (reaching "godliness" etc.), i.e. being free of things like jealosy, envy, arrogance, greed/lust, hypocrisy etc etc (which are considered social evils) -- thus brahmans are those folks whose attitude is geared towards tranquility of the senses, extremely tuned senses (i.e. not allowing senses to be under intoxication -- because all intelligence comes from the senses) -- and essentially living in the state of god (as a feeling) -- the superiority is merely a perception because they seem to have overcome ego, vanity etc ... of course how many folks who call themselves brahmans are really that ? (and of course caste-by-birth is also not totally nonsense as genes and memes certainly play a part) -- of course most people who call themselves brahmans are rarely so.

Amal said...

All reservation system should be taken away from India. I am for Rajaji's reservation system - only the Brahmins should be allowed to study. Every other non-brahmins should go back to do their ancesstory job like Agriculture, climbing trees, mining shoes, etc.

Anonymous said...

Amal, Sarcasm aside, i think it is understood that learning has two meanings -- one is psychological/vedic learning and the other is learning the skills of the trade. Historically, the people who used to care about Vedic Psychology became 'brahmans' and the rest took on professions of their choice. Remember that books were not invented till only a few hundred years back, so this knowledge remained specialized. Today, anyone has the opportunity to become a brahman (if they want to i.e.) just like anyone has the opportunity to become anything else. Remember that all of this is about 'attitude' ... you'll know that youve become a brahman (whatever your birth caste might be) -- again i wish to stress that its about 'attitude' (and i also wish to stress that please do not call it 'brahmin' (that is the way the British idiots used to spell it) .. it is 'brahman' .. :-) thanks.

Anonymous said...

hello!!
It was nice reading your article. I agree with you that the reservation system should be abolished. When the constitution was written, the reservation system had an expiry date. Now it appears that we have to live with it and only hope that the quota does not increase further. Some proponents of the system say that it has bridged social inequalities, but such an argument is flawed as modernism itself has bridged it.We brahmins who used to live in secluded agraharams have moved to flats. In fact, the pursuit of wealth by a brahmin was prohibited in the ancient days. The brahman's only wealth is the knowledge he possesses. The brahman society has reformed well as can be seen with the brahman women who used to have no rights at all. The same is the case with all women in general. The caste system is what we have been familiar with. The caste barriers have bridged by the dawn of modernism and western thoughts. It is time our government understands the value of merit and start valuing people by the merit that they possess.

Anonymous said...

In continuation to my previous post, I want to convey to my fellow brahmins here that the caste system is totally unjustified. How can one man be superior to another by mere birth? It was the same flawed argument used by the white people to rule the world known as the "white man's burden". Whatever we achieve is due to hard work and selfless toil. You can proud of brahmin heritage and the contributions of brahmins. but dude, if you think you are superior to another human , beware you are treading the wrong path. Good luck to you all

Ramakrishnan N said...

In continuation to my previous post, I want to convey to my fellow brahmins here that the caste system is totally unjustified. How can one man be superior to another by mere birth? It was the same flawed argument used by the white people to rule the world known as the "white man's burden". Whatever we achieve is due to hard work and selfless toil. You can proud of brahmin heritage and the contributions of brahmins. but dude, if you think you are superior to another human , beware you are treading the wrong path. Good luck to you all. (I am also the author of the previous post)

Anonymous said...

In continuation to my previous post, I want to convey to my fellow brahmins here that the caste system is totally unjustified. How can one man be superior to another by mere birth? It was the same flawed argument used by the white people to rule the world known as the "white man's burden". Whatever we achieve is due to hard work and selfless toil. You can proud of brahmin heritage and the contributions of brahmins. but dude, if you think you are superior to another human , beware you are treading the wrong path. Good luck to you all. (I am also the author of the previous post)

Ramakrishnan N said...

The much touted familiarity between german and sanskrit is simply hogwash. Man, Can't you see the german script? It is anglo-saxon. Sanskrit is devanagiri. Familiar sounding words do appear in all languages. Don't be drawn by these misleading arguments intended to show that brahmins have a nordic past. Most probably, some of them had migrated from the land of five rivers into india. thats all.

Ramakrishnan N said...

There is no familiarity between Jews and brahmins. Jews identify themselves as a single unified group whereas Brahmins are Priests cum philosophers of the Indian society.How do you get these ideas?Get real!!! If you have some evidence, give us the link. Rumor mongers have only lead us to the current misery. We are in fact suffering due to the wrongs done by our forefathers.However, I am proud of what I am and happy for it.

Ramakrishnan N said...

@Amal

Dude, if you restrict education and free thought,you are in hands with people like MAO ZEDONG,HITLER,STALIN and the likes. You may choose where you want to be. You seriously need to see the movie 1984 by George orwell or at least read the book

Ramakrishnan N said...

Guys, The caste system cannot be justified and never by the philosophy that says that caste is not by birth,but by our bearing. Absolutely senseless!! In that case, most of the "brahmins" here are not brahmins at all!! We must thank modernism for reducing the caste barriers. Any one who is not convinced should read rajaji's books which clearly show how caste had a major role in the society in those days. No wonder the people were angry. who could tolerate such bullshit? Unfortunately, it lead to the creation of psychotic leaders like periyar, annadurai and karunanidhi. These people survived on specious arguments which were as insane as the caste system itself. TN requires an enlightened leader who has seen through these people.

Ramakrishnan N said...

@pradeep

Only thing common between Brahmins and jews is that they are humans.:)
It is confirmed that r1pa haplotype gene is more common in brahmins among indians which is common in europeons. But it means nothing

Ramakrishnan N said...

@Augustine Prabhu

The aryan Invasion theory itself is questionable. The British conveniently called the brahmins as the corrupted "white" people.same was propounded by the nazis. The nazis warned the german public on what could happen if racial hygiene was not maintained;they would have probably ended up like India. The truth is that aryans came most probably from current pakistan and afganistan. That they may have come from nordic areas and propounded the caste system is completely foolish. The caste system was cemented in the later vedic age. Initially, there were no distinctions. It is true that It began as distinctions due to profession. However, it has again blurred to an extent due to the spread of new thoughts and modernism. Merit should be given its due in the new age.
As Dr Martin Luther King once said,"
I have a dream that one day my four children would live in nation where they would be not by the colour of their skin but by the content of their character...I have a dream today.."

Anonymous said...

I DONT KNOW WHETHER THERE IS A GENETIC LINK BETWEEN THE JEWS AND THE BRAHMINS. I DONT KNOW WHETHER JEWS ARE BAD OR GOOD BECAUSE I AM IN INDIA AND I DONT HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THEM. BUT FOR SURE THE ORIGINAL PARASITIC RACE ID THE WHOLE BRAHMIN CASTE IN INDIA. THEY VERY WELL CAN NOT SURVIVE WITH OUT BEING A PARASITE UPON THE NATIVE SONS OF THE SOIL OF INDIA. THEY SUCK OUT EVERYTHING FROM THE NATIVES OF INDIA JUST LIKE A MOSQUITO AND THRIVE UPON THE LOOT. ALL THE SOCIAL AND ECONOMIC PROBLEMS IN INDIA ARE CAUSED BY THESE PARASITES. THESE PARASITES DONT BELONG WITH US[INDIANS] AND IF I WERE TO BECOME A DICTATOR OF INDIA THEN THE WORLD WILL SEE THE REAL HOLOCAUST INVOLVING THESE CRIMINAL PARASITES.

Anonymous said...

BRAHAMINS ARE EURASIANS THEY ARE NOT INDIAN ...NOW IT IS TRUE...BYE D N A REPORT. SUDHIR NAG

Raju said...

Sudhir Nag, first of all, please define 'INDIA'. India never existed before 1947.. we could have all become 10-15 different regions based on language. When one cant talk about 'India' just 70 years ago, whats the point in talking about Aryan invasion and all that which happened much much before? Genetic anthropology is only to find out the roots.. not to discriminate based on DNA reports.

veegopalji said...

BRAHMINS ARE BASICALLY PEACE-LOVING AND MINDING THEIR OWN BUSINESS ! THEY DON'T INTERFERE IN ANYBODY'S
AFFAIRS AND DISLIKE OTHERS ENTERING THEIR AFFAIRS ! THE POLITICAL SITUATION IN INDIA IS SUCH THAT THEY HAVE TO RISE LIKE A PHOENIX EVERYTIME THEY FACE A CRISIS ! BRAHMINS HAVE SELF-CONFIDENCE, WORK HARD, BELIEVE IN GOD AND SINCERE IN WHATEVER THEY DO AND ACT ACCORDING TO THEIR CONSCIENCE ! THIS SPIRIT IS IMBIBED IN THIS GREAT COMMUNITY AND THE SUCCESS RATE IS ALSO VERY HIGH ! OUT OF PURE JEALOUSY, PEOPLE WHO CANNOT FACE CHALLENGES AND SUCCEED, ONLY CREATE ALL THE DIFFERENCES IN THE SOCIETY, NOT TO MENTION THE INCAPABLE AND JEALOUS POLITICIANS WHO CANNOT STAND THE BRAHMIN WAVE ! NO DOUBT, BRAHMINS CAN FEEL PROUD THAT THEY ARE A RARE BREED OF PROFESSIONALS !