Dec 16, 2005

Now, 'THE' question

(Pic adopted from NASA)

mm.. this is turning out to be a week of religious discussions.. let me cap it with the last part of trilogy with the question that every one would have asked some point in their lives: Does God exist or not?

For 'yes': It is an easy way to answer. The universe is too complicated enough to have originated by its own; so someone supreme created it. Look at the beautiful flowers, birds and other exotic components of mother nature. They are too beautiful to have evolved themselves. Now, listen to music; listen to the talk of the nature.. Too wonderful to be nothing but wind. Big bang theory or whatever, what was there before the big bang?

For 'no': The most important question that keeps creeping up the mind in the counter-argument is, similar to the last line, if God exists, there must be a time when he/she originated.. what was there the second before the God appeared? Who/what created him? Astrophysicists with the most powerful of tools havent unearthed any evidence for anything or anyone 'upstairs'.

I am not an aethist.. I just belong to the 'confused' category.

The post on Sandyavandanam
The post on being religious


narayanan said...

Its an endless debate, you can think of points and counterpoints and what ends up is just a question mark.

Beliefs are subject to change too, depending on situations.


Barani said...

" Neenga thaan kadavul, Naanum Kadavul" - Anbe sivam dialouge thaan nyaabagam varudu !!

if you take a random survey , you will find more people in the "confused" cateogory than u can find in the "believers" or "aethists" lists.

Naanum unga category thaan !!- "Confused"

"Dukh me sumiran sab karai
sukh me kare na koi ..
Jo sukh me bhi sumiran kare , dukh kaahe ko hoi "

This is applicable to me.. I tend to be more religious when things are not going my way or when i desperately need some thing. appo scientific reasoning ellam pakkame andaathu !!

anyways like Narayanan says its an endless debate.

Vanathi said...

God created the Universe...

ram said...

I am neither clear nor confused. Whenever I attempted to conclude I could'nt. It suggests nothing about the existence or non-existence of GOD rather than the lack of knowledge about Him otherwise inability to correlate the more complex nature of the problem as such.
I will be here (in the world) for a very short period of time and in which I will be dedicating to such kind of thoughts for a very fraction of time and will definitely lose in the game. I keep away from it. Even if we could come to a definite conclusion that God only created the universe it is of no direct use to us. Then we will start the discussion why he created the universe. After getting the answer we keep on asking question rather than living.
Questioning never ends......

Raju said...

Narayanan, mmm... I agree with you.
Barani, well... the posts I wrote were indeed like a random survey albeit among a small sect of the society..
Vanathi, mm.. with the declaration of God as ur partner, I can understand ur comment..
Ram, 'I am neither clear nor confused' romba confuse pannitteenga ennai....
I agree that it is the lack of knowledge/understanding.. when would we know that we have that knowledge?

About ur point in 'losing the game', this is not the question that I am desparately trying to find an answer to for a long time... this qn. crops up once a while.. thats it..

ada-paavi!!!! said...

raju, god is something which is dealt with at many levels in indian thinkin, and i dont see space for the conflict ur speaking about, the conflict u spk about is christian in nature

first its idol worship.
then its moves to formless
and finally to the idea of aham brahmasmi, where god is within one, the point is that between all the three ideas, the idea of god in itself changes. first its external, and is identifible, then it moves to being energy, which is god. finally it is the realisation that god is within oneself, that the energy is within one, the energy which is the creater. ultimately energy becomes god, and energy created the universe according to science.

its just that with our understandig of god we move from one thinking to the other, thats what happens.

Paurna said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
tt_giant said...

I agree with Vatsan. Nowadays, I feel myself drawn towards the self-realization concept. Well, atleast I am attempting to!. This is being evident even more, when for example, my dad, during one of our phone conversations mentioned to me that when I do my prayers everyday, I need to wear an additional clothing - angavasthiram kind of.. This kind of "procedures" are what I want to move away from, and I think that is the first step towards realization.

But I am not intent in becoming like one of those guys who talk in a completely over the head fashion..

TamilPonnu said...

I'm in the confused category too..

Not a good week to talk about this..

ram said...

I do agree that I deviated much from the actual post. Sorry.

IMHO "Neither clear nor confused" means that still I hav'nt concluded.

When I conclude at half way through upon anything I may come across contradiction. That's why I am hesitant to conclude in this matter. (JK philosophy!)

I have neither met anybody with that knowledge nor attained that knowledge to say something about it. Probably kasturisrinivaasan or someone else might be able to say something in this regard.

Right now for me "GOD" is awareness (Still I have'nt concluded, it my current stance which may change).

Here in my hostel we (some of my friends) frequently involve in such kind of discussion and finally will concluded. IMHO, conclusion is just a point of agreement. someone has to agree upon somebody's view and hence conclude (atleast the sesson!!!). I again don't want to deviate much.

ram said...

hello anna, yenakku maridiyaaellam vanam, sariyaa..

Paurna said...

for some time i had felt that i was the only person to both believe in god and doubt his presence as well but i am happy to note that i have company.

well god is a mysterious unknown entity and in my opinion it is better to fear the unknown and also respect him

but at times there are events that make me question his existence.for eg lets take the case of tsunami,terrorist attacks and other incidents where innocent people are killed.when there are genocides.why does god allow such evens to happen???

now if someone can answer that for me would then be completely convinced.

Nitin said...

Raju, Pudhupettai audio released, do check it out, great songs man. yuvan has kallakified.

Raju said...

Vatsan, yeah, I agree with you on the various evolution phases.. But, we also have learnt a lot about Kailasam, vaikuntam, indralokam, heaven, hell, etc.. When there is a concrete proof for none of them so far, the inquisitive mind starts to think whether or not they exist.. And, isnt the conflict based on Hinduism?

Aham Brahmasmi is an interesting concept.. but, if you talk of energy, there is good energy and then there is bad energy also.. illaiya?
Paurna, why did you delete that comment? I will look forward to your note after you write that particular post..
Deepak, mm.. self-realization is what most spiritual masters and institutions such as ISKCON suggest nowadays.. Good.

The 'procedures' are what make things complicated at times.. As Nitin mentioned, instead of searching for a veshti, if he can do Sandyavandanam using a comfotable dress like shorts/pant, I think he would do it more often.. As the people wearing veshti decreases, the procedures also need to change..
Priya, ok.. one more member to the club.. welcome.. :-)

Raju said...

Ram, no no.. anything is welcome to be posted/discussed here.. so no probs..

Your points are well-taken.. As you said, this is something most of us would have discussed in length with friends..

The mariyadhai ellam comes from Madurai mann.. :-)
Paurna, mm.. that is something good I felt about blogs.. You are almost never alone in anything u think to be.. there is always company.. :-)

About natural/man-made disasters, this has been happening for ages.. Taking everything to God has its own disadvantages and complications..
Nitin, really? I was thinking about it just now.. It is a special combo YSR-Selva, isnt it? I am looking forward to listen to the songs.. BTW, how did you get hold of them?

NaiKutti said...

what or who is GOD?... is it a physical form?... if not, what is it?... i beleive there is a supernatural power (call it god if you will) and it has always beeen there, just that humans aren't capaable of understanding it completely :-)...

is there a time when he/she originated??... good question, the word "time" is created by humans and we tend to think that way.. we are limited in our abilities to understand!!!

Raju said...

Karthik, the questions you asked are good ones.. I have asked them too. I was wondering about the same supernatural power that you talk about, too.

Though time was created by humans, it exists invariably, right? Had it been random, we would have no answer to several phenomena.. Totally agree with ur last sentence..

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